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13 May 2007 @ 08:44 pm
We the people...  
So, rumor on the street has it that the takeover is happening June 5th.

Um, people can back me up with this... that is NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. It doesn't give us any time to get the Death Eater Ministry to start anything, or dive really deep into all this V for Vendetta/1984/any other corrupt government theme literature. Right now, as it stands... people would rather have Ian than Arbogast as Minister.

We need TIME for things to happen. We have all these roleplays we have set up for this, and we need time to get them played out and ready. Besides, we need a time when people are mostly available to play. What if nobody could play on June 5th? It'd be like a two-person take over. The last one, I believe, was slightly under 50 accounts. That had everyone involved.

I personally think that the takeover should be after the book release... the end of July. Especially so we can get things aligned with Book 7, have those events figured out, and then have ours figured out.

Also, there is something about a law... that makes Arbogast back after the takeover? I am sorry if I am going to be a bitch about this, but I don't want Arbogast back. I don't think many people want him back. Nobody will support a corrupt Minister. Which leads to another point... if anyone had thought about or discussed with others about what would happen after we have a takeover planned and executed. I assume maybe there would be elections for a new Minister, a new stucture of Government... Tina might go crazy on security, who knows.

So THIS ALL, right HERE... is a giant discussion right now. About when it might be good to, have the takeover take place, and what people want to do with the Ministry right now, and after the takeover.

So, thanks for hearing me out.
 
 
 
cgraves07 on May 14th, 2007 01:00 am (UTC)
I'm 100% behind you Jill, and you know this.

Like you said, we have TOO much planned. All of us, have tons of complex stuff set out that we can't just drop for this random day of June 5th. This made up law stuff.. is not going to fly with me.

No, Arby is not automatically Minister again - elections are the only logical thing that would happen after Ian is out of office.

The thing is, Ian isn't even CLOSE to out of office yet, so we shouldn't even have to be considering the after-effects right now. We have so much to do right now, and that's what we should be focusing on.
nile_lily on May 14th, 2007 01:11 am (UTC)
*claps* Jill, I agree with you completely 100% on all accounts. June 5th is way too soon, and well.. Yes, I agree it is high time for a new Minister as well.
lizblizz44 on May 14th, 2007 01:12 am (UTC)
I have to agree as well.

I was one that wasn't thinking when I thought that June 5th would be okay. I wasn't even thinking about school and stuff. I am far past that and don't think in terms of school anymore. Sorry for my ignorance. Then I was thinking June 15th and 16th to start. But that was no good. I liked the end of June then it was explained to me that it was okay to do it AFTER the book 7 release and that works for me too.

I was just under the impression it needed to be done before the book release. Don't ask where I got that impression. But I had that in my mind too.

But yeah July works for me. I don't care... whenever works for me.

I do agree about a re-election too.

(Deleted comment)
skylark67678 on May 14th, 2007 01:42 am (UTC)
LOL.

Okay, Kefer.

It's great that the Ministry is part of YOUR plan. But what about the rest of us? You should DO things because it is ENTERTAINMENT FOR EVERYONE. We are an online community - community meaning LOTS OF PEOPLE.

If you are going to be selfish - why would anyone want to agree to these things you're planning? Apparently the only people you have backing up your plan is your own characters on your many different accounts.

You didn't have to agree to this takeover, that's right - and that means that WE DON'T have to agree to deal with your constant need to be selfish and feel like the center of everything at all times. And it definitely means we don't have to agree with your self-promoting, sef-entitled Minister crap.

WHAT ABOUT OUR CHARACTERS?!

Did you even bother to talk to anyone else?

I have been trying to be decent and Jill-like this whole time. I've put past difference and tried to be nice, understanding and everything, and you come along and make it impossible to do so. You should be ashamed of yourself! Do you even realize what you're saying?

You're making it impossible for anyone to do anything because you want all the fun. I don't care if you're not busy anymore, or if you want to get it all over with now - there are still people in school, there are people going to camp, and people working. I wasn't aware when YOU became the center of everything.

You haven't grown up at all and you'd think you'd learn to be a little more mature. But I guess not. Learn that you are not the only one in roleplay and learn that YES we are fucking upset because we are all trying to sort of times when everyone is free, and Liz was nice enough to know when it was alright for the Order, and if a takeover was alright with us.

YOU DIDN'T EVEN BOTHER TO CONTACT ME, OR SAM. Who, may I remind you are the other heads of the other organizations you don't give two shits about.

Grow up.
(Anonymous) on May 16th, 2007 07:36 pm (UTC)
How dare you claim nothing has happened! It hasn't been much but there have been a growing number of RPs relating to the Ministry Takeover and many plans hatched to take it back. I even went ahead and created a "ghost" faction so users would be inspired to take part. Don't go around claiming nothing has happened before you take a chance to lurk around a thread or two.

I can tell you without looking that I see Liz's group moving, Godric Trenton's been up to something (although that can't seem to get anything done), Zale started an interesting series of RPs, and let's not forget BCF (If I forgot anyone else I'm deeply sorry). These four groups have made efforts to get into this RP and given others things to RP about. You can't say that was nothing, and also have a big head about taking your Ministry from you and wanting to adjust your plans.

Like it was stated we are a community there is no single person that can and should decide what RPs occur and when they begin and end. It's selfish of you to have such a rational that you treat the members of your community with such malice.

Word of advice: Stop being angry and start being rational
xxanica on May 14th, 2007 01:41 am (UTC)
I'm going to save my rather long post for another time because...yeah.

The thing is...June 5th is just a BAD DAY. It's right after graduation for some people. It's in the middle of finals for other people. And it's a week night. A SCHOOL night. A WORK night. And, so far as I know, no one was consulted about the date before it was posted.

And for people bitching about how nothing is happening. I'm sorry. I don't want to come across as the bitch, and I probably will, so I apologize now for that.

It's NOT the fault of any one person. You want action? Make it happen. Everyone wants something to go down, everyone wants to see the death eaters take action, but how many people are willing to take the time to make that action happen? I'm sick and tired of people bitching about how they have to wait. Contact a bloody death eater. Create a bloody death eater. Hell, write a damn article about something...that's what I did so that there *would* be a report of shady things going down. And, honestly, it's not my fault if people don't read those things.

How many people are out there starting Roleplays to define this world? How many people have taken the time to write up articles detailing what's going on in the world? Not that many. Every time I get one of those PM's, I tell people teh same damn thing...you want something to happen, make it happen. If you need someone else involved, PM them...ask them. Talk to them.

Yes. We're all busy. We work. We have school. We have Ap exams and final exams and graduations to deal with. We have family and friends. We all know this. Yes, very little has happened? Why, because everyone is looking to the same, damn, people to make it happen. And, it just so happens that those people are extremely overloaded at the moment without RP in the mix.

It was always understood that things would go slowly at first. Why? Because it's LOGICAL. When a group takes over a government, especially a group with the connotations the death eaters have, they're not going to go and slaughter people mercilessly if they want to keep in power. It's stupid, and if the books show us anything, it's that the death eaters aren't stupid. Honestly, and this is just speaking from a more...political standpoint...I think that were the ministry to be re-taken right now, the public would rise up against it.

I'm not saying Arbogast can't come back, or any other Deluca for that matter. It's not my decision. It was never and will never be my decision. Frankly, I don't even know if Xxani cares enough right now to vote.

However, I will say that Arbogast screwed himself over more than once both in the eyes of those in the Ministry and in the eyes of the public.

Again, I'm sorry if I've come across as a bitch.
skylark67678 on May 14th, 2007 01:46 am (UTC)
lol, you were a lot nicer than I was.
skylark67678 on May 14th, 2007 01:49 am (UTC)
Oh, and can I point out that IAN AND ARBY HAVEN'T EVEN FUCKING FINISHED THE ROLEPLAY YET. Let alone make it out of the office.

Maybe you should contact Sam and get THAT DONE before you plan a takeover for everyone else and dominate everything you feel like you can.
jeikora on May 14th, 2007 03:15 am (UTC)
Umm...

Yeah. Life aside, June 5th is bad. If anyone expects to have this organized by June 5th, well, think again. Also, the point of this plot was to give everyone a chance to RP out of their normal element. If we do this June 5th, we will have missed that entire aspect of the roleplay. It'd just be all, "Hey, Death Eaters took the Ministry!... Hey, the old Ministry is back!" Plot aside, June 5th is bad. Finals, graduations, and general start-of-summer stuff. I know this doesn't affect half of you, but it *does* affect the other half of us, and we can't very well hold a rebellion with half of an army.

(I will say this, though. My summer is going to be crazy, and my characters don't really mean much to the plot. I'm not going to throw a fit if I can't participate in the re-takeover if my life conflicts with this. I'm only speaking in terms of what will maximize participation.)

So, up to this point, I've only mentioned everything that has already been said. Go me! Anyway, on to some semi-original thought.

Doing this after the book release would be awesome for yet another reason. An MNII reason. Just... trust me on this. If we do this before the book release, we run the risk of the whole thing turning to crap for technical reasons. I'm purposely vague on this point because one, I don't want to get in trouble from anyone above me for saying too much, and two, I'm not entirely sure of the details myself. But after the book release, we should be on good ground.

And, finally, on to the post-takeover stuff. I'm all for re-elections. We kind of fell into a rut before the first takeover, where nothing new was happening, and no one cared to start anything new. Until we organized this plot. Do we really want to revert back to the old rut when this is over? Putting new people in charge would give things a fresh outlook, new situations to RP. Plus, even though we don't mean it, the Ministry does come across as rather elitist. Applications aren't exactly flooding in. I was even reluctant to try to get in until someone approached me about joining the Ministry. I think that if we held elections and did a bit of re-structuring, maybe some people who have been intimidated by the Ministry might try to get in.

There's more, but I'll stop for now. I've only rambled this long because my power went out while I was in the middle of typing, so I just kept going until my power came back so I could actually post it. :P
nels_snape on May 14th, 2007 03:30 am (UTC)
Hi- ok, yes I'm going to give my opinion too.
And don't shut me up- I'm on painkillers, I have an excuse.
Anyway, first of all, I really agree with Jill...and everyone else that agrees with Jill.
Because...the takeover took a HELL LOT OF PLANNING. It wasn't just: so give us the ministry! No, ok, it took a lot of work, a lot of plots- everyone wanted the takeover to affect their characters in some major way.

As for nothing happening so far...yes, nothing has happened. But are we to blame? Certainly not. If there is someone to blame for the roleplaying being dull and deadified, go ahead and blame our schools, and our teachers, and our social lives, and our whatever else happens that keeps us away from MNI.

I'm going to make a random generalization here and assume several of us are busy with school/college/work and hey you know...as much as it pains me to not torture other people's characters with Nels...I THINK our main priority right now is ending the school year well. Because it'd be kind of silly if we all end up doing badly or don't get our work done because we decided to roleplay instead.
I don't know what everyone else thinks...but if you're gonna ask me to focus on roleplay or focus on my academic life...I'll choose academic life. Unless I can pick a major in Roleplaying...that'd be a different story, but yeah.

Now, I think people are developing plots...I've been contacted by Ministry people about possible ideas, but I've been blatantly honest with my replies letting them know that at this moment I can't do anything about it because I don't have the time. It's not that action isn't happening...it's just...that it's happening...very, very, slowly.

So, yeah, busy lives are to blame for the lack of roleplaying. I know it's not fair for everyone else that does find time to roleplay...but, as it was stated before- this is a MNI WIDE Community...meaning, it's not just two or three people roleplaying. We need to learn to roleplay with everyone else, and that means accomodating to whatever obstacles we'll find with schedule.

So...yes to the Ministry regaining its Ministry. But no to having it done so early. Why? Because it'd be selfish and unfair. I know a lot of people still have a lot of plots in mind for the new Ministry. I, personally, want to cause some chaos with the Watchers- but if the retaking of the Ministry occurs on June 5th/the beginning of June, you give me like 4 days to roleplay what I've had in mind for months (because I finish school on the 31st)...and I think that sucks and I don't like it.

It'd make much more sense if we wait until after Deathly Hallows. Think about it- we'll have lots of time to roleplay with the D.E Ministry and create the Hitler-like government we had in mind from the start- AND it'll be summer- it's a hell lot easier for people to set up roleplays without much real life getting in the way.

I'm tired of people complaining that nothing has been going on- and tired of people PMing me asking me why the hell did we take over the Ministry if we weren't even going to make it interesting. That's because we haven't had the chance to make it interesting- so I believe it'd be fair if we have summer to develop the plots everyone had in mind.

Besides, retaking the Ministry after book seven is done will help us know in what direction to set up the retaken Ministry.

As for who the Minister will be..I think we should have elections again. I like voting. It's fun.

Oh, and also- I wasn't attacking anyone when I was typing this. It's not meant for anyone in specific....I'm just voicing out my humble opinion.
And sorry I wrote so much.

(Deleted comment)
cgraves07 on May 14th, 2007 04:05 am (UTC)
No, not everyone was fine with Arby in office. IC and OOC. Elections are logical.

I mean, Sky brings up a good point - the RP with Ian & Arby isn't even done. Arby just somehow gets out, and comes close to powerplaying Ian to get out of the situation. Sure, Arby has the right to escape, yes, but it's not fair to rush everything, when like Nels said, this took a hell of a lot of planning by several people.

The Ministry could use the elections to kick a little interest in it after it is taken back.

That post doesn't make nearly as much sense as it did in my head, whatever.
xxanica on May 14th, 2007 04:09 am (UTC)
It's not that I want elections, precisely, but I think that, considering the state of the world, it would be logical if they were held. I'm not saying right away.

ICly, the world isn't very happy with Arby and whether or not it's feasible to believe that people will only decide things based on IC circumstance, it's logical to think that, in a case like this...a vote would be called. It's happened before in history....actually, in British History. It's also happened in the books when the nation called for Fudge to resign.

Mind you, that's also based on current (and past) circumstance. Arby could always redeem himself before there would be elections...or hell, redeem himself enough for them not to be called. I don't know. I can't predict the future and I try not to in RP since...I don't know your plans with your characters.

I just think that...well, from an IC perspective...there would be objections to his returning to office unless he does something to...assuage those concerns. The IC public doesn't trust him. Hell, they didn't trust the previous Ministry at all. That's not to say the *won't* but just something that I think...well, we all need to take into consideration. Public pressure is a killer in politics.
nels_snape on May 14th, 2007 12:51 pm (UTC)
Yeah I'd like to specify the election thing- if anything was decided OOCly..then let it be that way.

However, from an RP perspective...I think the wizarding community would LIKE the elections. But like it was said before- that doesn't mean Deluca couldn't run for them.

So- I have no clue if this was discussed before the Takeover took place, because if it was then yeah it'd be unfair if we keep Arbogast out just because we felt like it. But ICly speaking...elections would make sense. People would, naturally, be scared of losing the Ministry again and would like to hand it over to someone they can trust. *runs off to school*
princess_v_mur on May 14th, 2007 12:24 pm (UTC)
Please forgive me I don’t have time to read everything that’s been posted I have 10 minutes before I have to start working but I wanted to say a few things.

One, yes June 5th is way too soon. However waiting till after the book is released is a not good idea either. I’m thinking from a um standpoint that I can’t really say much about but in terms of er organization it would probably be best to aim for mid to late June for the re-take over... read between the lines if you wish but yeah, that’s my headly/rp’ly suggestion.

As for a new minister *COUGH* no offence but it is highly unfair that no one else is getting the chance to be minister, I understand the plot lines and plans that people have come up with but remember there are people who keep playing along waiting for their chance at being minister (no I’m not talking about Arty don’t kill me please). And yeah I think it’s well past time for Arby to be out and someone new to be in. Besides it’s not like Arby couldn’t run again *shrug*

I know there were other things mentioned something about laws and what not but I won’t pretend I understand what yins mean by them lol.

Anyways I need to go make my breakfast and get to work, sorry if I repeated anything already said but yeah those are just my humble opinions on the matter. *toddles off*
w1dancin on May 14th, 2007 10:12 pm (UTC)
I think the consensus is that June 5th = bad. I'm not disagreeing but I'm saying that I don't blame whoever wanted something to happen because it seems like nothing is happening as of right now. I'm not complaining, merely pointing it out. I understand that people have other lives, just you also have to understand that there are people that have more free time, that can visit the site everyday, and want a place to post. It's not fair to put the rest of the MNI-wide world at a stand-still. If you don't have the time, don't make the commitment.

An election does make sense. Arby can choose to run again, even though he is ICly disliked. In the post describing the election, though, I would suggest writing OOC what is understood knowledge to each british witch and wizard. For example, "OOC: Person X is generally well-liked. Person Y made headlines a few months ago for robbing a bank. Person Z is blue." Things like that.

I say that we wait until after Book 7. What if we RPed the re-takeover and in the book, the DEs take over the MoM at the end? We'd have to RP it out again. I know it's unlikely, but I think realistically, it would make the most sense to wait and see, then we can BIG plan it all out: re-takeover, book 7, etc.

And I have to go to dinner now, so I didn't get a chance to read all of these yet. I'm sorry if I repeated someone.
nile_lily on May 15th, 2007 12:30 am (UTC)
I understand what you're saying about people that do have more free time, but there's nothing that says that those people that DO have more free time than others can't make anything happen. So you can't just pin the blame on those that don't have as much time really. *shrugs* The fact that nothing's happening can be pinned on everyone, even those that DO have time because they're just as much at fault for not making anything happen.


I just wanted to point that out.
w1dancin on May 15th, 2007 09:49 am (UTC)
I never thought this was about assigning blame. No matter how individualistic it is, MNI-Wide RP will always be a group effort at its heart. We all need to work together.

It wasn't blaming, I was just telling some people not to be quick to judge. Yes patience is a virtue, but no one's here because they have to, they're here because they want to. And when you want to be there, and no one else is, it gets frustrating.

Nothing has to be pinned on anyone. In a group project, if you don't turn it in, everyone gets a bad grade. All I was saying is don't everyone hate on the group that wanted something done.
slytheriness on May 15th, 2007 08:25 am (UTC)
*coughs*

Okay, let me say something here. I'm sorry I haven't been around, I'm sorry that I'm trying to spend my last few days soaking up my time here with my boyfriend/friends before I have to travel HALF WAY ACROSS THE COUNTRY back home where I have to readjust fitting back into my house after being gone for over five months.

Excuse me if I can't spend every night on the internet right now. I'm busy. College is something that TAKES UP YOUR TIME. I'll be around, I'll make something happen-- Just let me get home first.

Jesus--

Whatever happened to patience being a virtue?
(Anonymous) on May 16th, 2007 08:10 pm (UTC)
I'm sorry if this comes across as offensive, but are those of you who boldly claim "nothing has happened" blind? Taking your word literally suggests that there is not a single thread/Rp up related to taking back the Ministry. You suggest there are not several resistance efforts being made or explored all across the Role Play forum.

Yes, there's not a battle every night and Death Eaters aren't storming into the Hog's Head every night,torturing innocents and dueling Aurors, but give them a freakin' break. People have lives and not everyone is available or will be at one time. And while you're agreeing with what I just said keep in mind that some of us do have time and are making our best efforts to make this entertaining. I won't play multiple roles just to have people look down on my meager efforts as nothing. You are not just a viewing crowd, by creating a character, by lurking as a RPer you have the capacity to contribute to this event.

If you can post, and plan and RP...do it, but don't you dare claim nothing has happened. Listen to me as I tell you how hard I worked to edit Prophet and Ides articles so they would be accepted the purpose of this event would be furthered. I don't see what I've done is nothing, and while I'm almost ready to relax I still have more plans to make this seem like its supposed to.

I'll wrap up by saying this: If you can't RP too often or are busy that's fine, don't sacrifice your time to keep up unless you can. And for those who can RP and aren't posting, but have the audacity to complain: Stop bitching and fucking post. Put in the effort because this can't be easy for it to be effective yet fun.
notcrzyjustalex on May 19th, 2007 03:09 pm (UTC)
I've read everything here, and to be honest, some of it was too ranty for me to read all the way through without my head spinning. So I'll make this quick.

June 5th just isn't a good date, most people are still in school or are getting out around that date. There would be too much in the air for a significant amount of people to participate at that time. I for one have finals that week, and I really can't afford to fail any of them. (a.k.a. I'm in high school and therefore my parents control my life, and plus they said if I fail I'm only allowed online like once a month...)

Re-elections would just make common sense, the Ministry was taken over, it makes perfect sense to re-elect a new leader. Whether or not that was the way Kefer planned it.